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2: All Things Leptin (Leptin 101) | Dr. Ron Rosedale

2: All Things Leptin (Leptin 101) | Dr. Ron Rosedale

AIR DATE: January 19, 2012 at 7PM ET
FEATURED EXPERT: Dr. Ron Rosdale
FEATURED TOPIC: “All Things Leptin (Leptin 101)”

Episode 2 of “Jimmy Moore Presents: Ask The Low-Carb Experts” features Dr. Ron Rosedale, M.D. who is the author of The Rosedale Diet and is an internationally-known expert in nutritional and metabolic medicine whose work with diabetics is truly groundbreaking. Through his work, he has helped literally thousands of patients suffering from so-called incurable diseases to regain their health. One of Dr. Rosedale’s life goals is to wipe out Type II diabetes in this country as a model for the world. Dr. Rosedale helped set up health retreats in India so that his knowledge could be shared with others less fortunate. His specific research interests include diabetes and the aging process, the correlation between diet and the aging process, and leptin, insulin, and the quality of metabolism. He has been studying and talking about the role of the hormone leptin for nearly two decades and is more than qualified to address this very important issue for people interested in health and weight loss in their low-carb lifestyle.

Here are the questions we address in this podcast:

KATHY ASKS:
I’d like Rosedale to comment on Dr. Kruse’s Leptin Prescription — does he agree ? How important is it to eat that much protein — isn’t it too much for some? Is it really that important to exercise after 5 — doesn’t that interfere with sleep?

EXCEPTIONALLY BRASH ASKS:
What is the mTOR pathway and why don’t we want to be on it? When are you going to update/write a book?

SUMNER ASKS:
How do you determine what level of protein is “moderate” to be consuming?

DFH ASKS:
What if I know my leptin is low, not high? I’ve been treated for adrenal fatigue, hypothyroid, and insulin resistance. Reverse T3 thyroid was high, but I don’t have numbers for leptin. Long story short, everything is awesome. It’s sorted out. My last labs showed good TSH, T3, and reverse T3 was low, not high, just a bit under the low range. I got a leptin number this time too and it’s very low, not high. Its complicated because I had the previous history, but since it looks like the leptin situation is strong, now what? I have seen “leptin reset” stories and I like that stuff, but once you supposedly get there with your leptin, what’s the best diet routine and macros? I wouldn’t mind losing another 15 lb. I’m down to 200 from 310.

PAM ASKS:
I have read the book, and read about Leptin Resistance. It makes sense. However, I don’t really see what I can do about my own Leptin Resistance other than follow a low-carb diet. What makes the theory of Leptin Resistance different from the Insulin Theory promote by Gary Taubes among others that I can incorporate into my weight loss/plateau journey?

STEVE ASKS:
Sometimes after I eat, and I eat high-fat/low-carb, I feel very, very full even though I have not eaten what most would consider a large meal, and I think, “Maybe I shouldn’t have eaten so much.” Have you ever heard of this phenomena before? Am I feeling the effects of leptin? Does the effect of leptin work in real time such that if I were to eat slowly enough it would tell me right in the middle of a meal that I’ve eaten enough?

DEB ASKS:
Does Leptin play a part in Poly Cystic Ovarian Syndrome? Our 32 year old daughter has been trying to get pregnant for over a year and after consulting with a fertility doctor and having an ultra sound she has been told she has PCOS. The doctor wanted to put her on Metformin, but she has decided instead to start eating low carb. Can PCOS be reversed by losing weight especially with a low carb diet?

JOHN ASKS:
To control leptin I tried a low-carb/high-fat diet but after a month my blood tests showed sharp increase in triglycerides and sharp decrease in HDL. I simultaneously went off HGH injections which took IGF-1 from 127ng/ml to 74ng/ml. Is it possible the anticipated benefit was not seen due to a lower IGF-1?

QUEST BARS HAS A BRAND NEW NATURAL LINE:

NOTICE OF DISCLOSURE: http://cmp.ly/3

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  • http://twitter.com/T4T3D Paul

    Excellent podcast. Thank you.

    • Anonymous

      Thanks for listening Paul!

  • Anonymous

    Hi Jimmy:

    You know, the more Dr. Rosedale talks, the less I understand. I’ve read his website. And I don’t get it.

    He says to eat “moderate” protein – 50 g. That’s less than 3 oz protein a day! But then when Sumter asks his question, he says to eat 2 eggs, and “a deck of cards” size for lunch or dinner. This deck of cards is a common descriptor, it’s usually about 4 oz. So he’s really saying eat 2 eggs and 8 oz a day? That’s exactly what Atkins will tell most women to eat. And it’s more than 50g. So which is it?

    Likewise, on carbs. He says don’t count carbs, eat leafy greens, veggies. But then he says to eat a low-carb diet. But how do I know if I don’t count? If all I count is protein, how do I know how many carbs I’m getting? Veggies do have carbs, even spinach and kale. So how many should I eat to be low carb?

    Finally fat. It seems for a while as if he is saying to eat a ketogenic diet – 75% of your diet it seems should be fat. But towards the middle of minute 42 in the podcast, he says don’t eat a high-fat diet. Then he praises caloric restriction.

    So is this the deal? I’m supposed to eat 3 oz. of protein a day, 3 cups of spinach, as a few tablespoons of coconut oil? Is he really just trying to tell us to calorie restrict and live on 800 calories a day for health and longevity? Almost no one can do this. But then to be fair, I’ve never met anyone who was actually on Dr. Rosedale’s diet.

    Did I just seriously misunderstand everything in this podcast (the phone quality wasn’t so awesome, as you yourself note) or is the Rosedale diet really this challenging? Atkins Induction is a breeze compared to what Dr. Rosedale just described here – I think! :)

    Thanks for your great work!!

    • Anonymous

      Great questions! He’s definitely in favor of moderate protein as a central focus of his diet. That would be no more than 50-75g based on your exercise level. On carbs, he’s in favor of keeping anything that turns to sugar in the body minimized. Most people who eat low-carb tend to go for the green leafy and non-starchy veggies for our carbohydrates. You don’t have to count the fiber in these foods, so you can consume quite a bit with very little blood sugar impact. Regarding the fat, for people losing weight he believes the fat stores on their body serve as an energy source for cells so you don’t have to consume as much dietary fat. I challenged this notion when I had him on my other podcast a couple of years back:

      http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/1951/world-renowned-low-carb-physician-dr-ron-rosedale-episode-365/

      • Anonymous

        I’ll see if I can get Dr. Rosedale to chime in here to answer your concerns specifically. Thank you for listening and I apologize for the phone issues.

    • JP

      I think Dr. Rosedale means grams of protein, which will be only a portion of any food type. For example, 4 ounces (roughly 115 grams) of ribeye steak has only 30 grams of protein.

    • Ron Rosedale

      It does appear that there were many misunderstandings and I apologize for this. This, in part, was due to the frequent interruptions of the phone connection, perhaps poor explanations on my part, but also to false preconceptions about what certain terms mean.

      I did say that one should eat moderate protein that I defined as that protein that can be utilized as opposed to burned for fuel. This will vary per person depending mostly on lean mass, but also activity level, growth, and pregnancy. For most people this will be 50 to 60 g per day divided into several meals. When I am talking about protein, I’m talking about pure protein. A 3 ounce piece of meat or fish (a deck of cards sized) has approximately 20 g of protein, the rest mostly being water and a little fat. Two eggs has between 12 and 14 g of protein. Therefore, as an example, one can easily eat two eggs for breakfast, a piece of chicken for lunch, and some fish at dinnertime to easily meet one’s protein needs. What Atkins had originally told people to eat was low carbohydrate of any kind and anything else was mostly fine. His later books, not written by him but a ghost writer that knew me well, followed more my guidelines.

      Carbohydrates can be divided into two general forms; fiber or not fiber. The major difference from a nutritional standpoint is that fiber cannot turn to sugar. Any carbohydrate that is not fiber will turn to sugar in some way shape or form and should be avoided as much as possible. Carbohydrates are a non-essential nutrient. There is no need to count carbohydrates then; the fewer non-fiber carbohydrates the better. The majority of vegetables consist mostly of cellulose (fiber) and water and would therefore be acceptable. There are certainly “sugary” exceptions including beets, corn, baby carrots, etc. Essentially, as far as carbohydrates go, pick your health.

      Fat; this is the fuel that the vast majority of your cells should be burning the vast majority of the time. In other words, this is what your cells should be eating. I don’t believe that I have ever said (or at least meant) in my lifetime to not eat a high-fat diet. Quite the contrary. If you are hungry, I feel you should eat as long as it is the proper foods to keep insulin and leptin levels low. Fat and oils are the major macronutrients that fall into that category. However, I do not feel one should eat large meals. Eating smaller meals will give time for appetite controlling hormones to act.

      Because it is your cells that eat, and they are eating all of the time, you can never know how many calories they are eating; you cannot count calories. What you put in your mouth is not necessarily what your cells will eat. What they eat will be determined by hormones secreted secondary to what you put in your mouth. In other words, you should eat to regulate hormones that will determine what your cells eat later.

      I praise the health benefits of caloric restriction, but not its human application from a practical standpoint. Somewhat of a holy grail in aging research has been to find a way to mimic caloric restriction, without having to caloric restrict. I believe that is what my diet does as verified by laboratory tests that mimic those found in caloric restriction (and previously published). Most of the benefits of calorie restriction appeared to be secondary to restricting carbohydrates and protein, not fat. Furthermore, by strengthening leptin signaling, my diet will elicit far better appetite control and this will likely reduce the amount of food one puts in their mouth. By reducing hunger, this diet will help prevent one from overeating, and therefore unconsciously, and painlessly, restrict calories. Furthermore, as insulin and especially leptin signaling become corrected one becomes able to properly burn fat stores. Therefore, your cells, you, will be able to “eat” your (often excessive) fat stores even when you do not put any food in your mouth, such as when you are sleeping. This is very desirable and also helps to preserve lean body mass, including protein matrix of bone.

      By way of summary, and a major point that I made (and hopefully did not get cut off) was that optimal health and lifespan will be determined by the proportion of fat versus glucose one burns. Burning fat or ketones is far healthier than burning glucose as fuel. Whether one burns glucose or fat is determined by very powerful metabolic hormones, namely leptin and insulin. These in turn are controlled by what you eat.

      Hopefully these explanations help. If not, keep firing away with questions.

  • Jennifer Eloff

    Blood tests should only be done several months into a low-carb diet otherwise the profile can actually look worse, the late Dr. Atkins said.

    • Anonymous

      This is true Jennifer.

  • http://twitter.com/joe_lindley Joe Lindley

    Jimmy and Dr. Rosedale – This was very informative. It was great to hear that the low carb, moderate protein, high fat diet is the best choice for reducing both insulin and leptin resistance.
    Thanks!

    • Anonymous

      Appreciate you listening Joe!

      • Jill4535

        I listened too.

        • Anonymous

          THANK YOU Jill! You’re so supportive of all my podcasts. :)

  • Paleo Mom

    Dr. Rosedale, Can you please give a little info on the question re: the leptin levels being too low? I am a 40 yo woman who has a leptin level of 1.6 with a bmi of 23. I lowered my leptin through the paleo diet (non dairy version). The issue is that now my testosterone is also low. My other hormones inc. cortisol are normal. I had previously tested hypothyroid though that is resolved (or not showing) with this latest test. Issue is though that despite my exceptionally clean diet, active athletic exercise for 1.5 hours 5-6 days a week + 2 days a week of strength training, I am still plateaued at 23% body fat with 10 lbs to still shed. 5’4″ at 134lbs. Mostly I carry my fat in my hips and thighs so it is subcutaneous rather than visceral (which I know is healthy). Do I need to try and raise my leptin to a “normal” range for my BMI? I tried doing a carb re-feed a few weeks ago and felt awful and gained weight when I did it. I also have ostopenia (via dexa scan) which I am told is an issue with low leptin levels. I would welcome a clarification if you can on if leptin levels can be too low? Ovulating does not seem to be an issue for me, I still have my cycle and appear to ovulate (I feel it). Also, I feel very energetic and healthy. I do wish I could just shed these last 10 lbs and get down to 18% body fat which based on my diet and exercise I believe would be normal for me. Thank you,

  • Paleo Mom

    Hi Dr. Rosedale,

    Thank you for a very interesting discussion. I wanted to follow up further re: the very low leptin issue. I am a 40 yr old woman who eats paleo, and exercises 5-6 days week with intermittent cardio at a high level, as well as 2 days a week of strength training. I have a body fat of 23% despite a very clean diet and all my activity levels. I carry my body fat around my hips and legs (subcutaneous fat vs. visceral and I know it is “healthier”). Despite my efforts I have not been able to get down to a 18% body fat which I think would be more comensurate with my diet and exercise activities.

    4 months ago I had a blood test that showed me to have low leptin levels of 4.6 (my normal range for my bmi is 3.3-20). I also was testing hypothyroid. Additionally, I had a dexa scan which showed I was osteopenic. Not wanting to just get right on levoxin and go on a high carb diet as was recommended to me at the time, I went on a strict paleo diet. Now after 4 months ( including a leptin reset diet protocol for 10 weeks a la Jack Kruse), I was just retested 2 weeks ago. This time my Leptin had gone down to 1.6 (even lower than before). My thyroid tested normal ( but I have heard that it is hard to diagnose hypothyroid with such low leptin levels). Now, my testosterone levels are low.

    Your talk left me with the impression that unless I am trying to conceive (which I am not, though I am fairly certain I am ovlulating) that having ultra low leptin is not something I should be concerned about. My question though is that I am under the impression that the low leptin levels is making it tough to lose the extra bodyfat that is still stubbornly hanging around. More importantly, I understand that low leptin levels negatively impact bone calcification and thus could be making my osteopenia worse. I already have one confirmed and one suspected stress fracture. Is having such low leptin levels really healthy and acceptable? Shouldn’t I try to raise them to normal…somehow? Is the normal range not accurate? Thanks for any feedback on this.